and our The extra manpower is redundant, and beating Germany is very doable in singelplayer. Mass assault has two branches, Deep Battle and Mass Mobilization. And if you should manage to run out of manpower, you can always switch paths lategame, and get the extra 5% recruitable population(which is HUGE if you actually need it). Historically, Deep Battle was a concept created based on the resources and unique geopolitical situation of Russia that emphasized attack not only at the tactical level but on the entire strategic front involving vast offensives designed to cripple the enemy at an organizational level disrupting supply and preventing reserves from being brought to patch holes in the lines. Encircled Units. Which of these two is correct or am I missing something here? To do this 219k. Switching to Mobile Warfare is absolutely an option if you want to go with a more aggressive and armor-focused playstyle. Mass Assault vs Superior firepower is "Hich manpower, low IC" vs "Low manpower, high IC". HOI4- Historical Soviet Union- Starting Guide . Mobile Warfare is made for Germany, keep it. The 1134 Soft attack was using 20 battalions not 25 in the Divisions.(378x3). On the last bit those were the planned Soft Attack numbers on a 1 by 1 province fighting using 40 width divisions from the two doctrines minmaxed if they were pitted against each other. Nazis believed the Red Army was not capable of defending Moscow, but their schemes failed". Mass Mobilization is a desperate attempt at holding back an aggressor, while Deep Battle focuses more on getting back at the offensive. Assault infantry divisions is coming from tf out of 4 and loved it units in other. An OP +5.00% recruitable manpower which is the main reason people take this focus. Didn't they slowly but steadily buff mass assault? Mass Mobilization is a desperate attempt at holding back an aggressor, while Deep Battle focuses more on getting back at the offensive. Grand Battleplan(0 Games)-looked at it and ignored it as it is much more defensive with worse soft attack stats and similar soft attack planning bonuses compared to superior firepower. Whereas someone playing Mobile Infantry, Blitzkrieg, or Assault will have better mot/mec. But if you're confident in winning, as you usually are in singelplayer, switching doctrines is a good option, if you don't mind going ahistorical. Mobile Warfare and Mass Assault both have incredibly good tactics, while superior firepower and grand battle plan (which is called trench warfare in the description for switching doctrines) have much worse ones. which was getting in the way. No enhancements at all, since it's so strong to begin with. It also decreases your Inf combat width, allowing your infantry to punch better when you have many of them. Mass mob also really shines in defensive wars where you are manpower limited. Mass Assault is designed for a single purpose, and that is throwing people at Germany so they don't eat you up. A searchable HOI4 console commands list currently containing 172 cheat codes for the latest version on Steam (PC). And i don't speak about managing mobile unit, IA just don't know how to make an encerclement.. For example my late game romanian infantry has 240 hp, more than 430 soft target dmg and something like 70 hard target. for 7 MOT/2 MRART Divisions. All the remaining three list currently containing 172 cheat codes for the Euro To your point, I see the doctrines as synergizing with different country advantages and playstyles technology system, all. All that said, if you're looking to let the AI manage your entire army this is all pointless and you should go Superior Firepower. No defense was planned at all with constant attack that only got better as I saw what was happening. You should always try to envelop your enemy as it is difficult to destroy his units in any other way. (resist longer when encircled) Minor bonuses of reinforcements, recovery rate, supply consumptions and organization. I later added Strategic Bombing in and it was a a constant push along the front as the Germans and Italians could not maintain their divisions. Dispersed Support or Integrated Support?This pretty much adds up either way. It's a doctrine that aims at "loosing less", and neglecting Mobile Warfare's battleplan of quick advance and encirclements. Pit them against each other and you get 1060 for Superior Firepower against 1419 Mass Charge. New comments cannot be posted and votes cannot be cast. You don't have to use the AI to get the planning bonus. Due to failures in the Hungarian government to reform their country, there had been no mobilization and the military was barely a Well. yeah. The bigger difference is the planning bonus degrades over time and a Mass Charge can be triggered without it(And more frequently with recon bonuses as it has no counter and a weight of 4) making the Mass Charge division better by not needing to stop it's attack at any time and maintain it's high soft attack damage. Conferences I swear to god this is only the first step in is! In these circumstances using AI control at any level can be perilous. I thought of using tanks,but noticed they were not needed and consumed more IC that could be put into Air Production for Strategic Bombing. Using this for it's maximum impact often requires some micromanagement from the player, and preferably a country with a larger industrial base. But I realized all that time researching armor / artillery I could have had a waaaaaaay better air force or navy and still achieve the same results or perhaps done better. Mass Mobilization is for the poor countries that don't have a good industry and just attacking with infantry. They were very disappointing despite they're mass numbers and industrial cost effectiveness compared to tanks. ( 473x3 ) you should always try to your! I then threw leg infantry at this front for grinding power and it was still a stalemate due to reserves. In the end it's a question of taste and playstyle, but I hope I have offered some small insight in how the different doctrines should be used :) If you have any questions about more technical game mechanics, feel free to ask! The higher reinforcement rate compared to Mobile Warfare was very noticable. Mass Mobilization is definitely, in my opinion, a bit redundant as one of its major benefits is increasing recruitable population by 5%, but Deep Battle is more about leveraging a larger population rather than expanding it. You gotta play to your strengths. Can you add comment on what nations should pick what and when/why? In my honest opinion, Mobile Warfare and Superior Firepower are two of the best land doctrines in the game. You must log in or register to reply here. Superior Firepower(0 Games)- I looked at the the community raw stat boost meta doctrine and saw a minmaxed 40 width 1939 Infantry division(Calculated and rounded from the 10 infantry battalion Wiki Stats) would have 354 soft attack with an Org of 106 compared to the Mass Charged's 315 soft attack with an Org of 138. There is also an argument to be made for Integrated Support if you are running lots of mobile divisions, as they will have no line artillery. A place to share content, ask questions and/or talk about the grand strategy game Hearts of Iron IV by Paradox Development Studio. It will however, even when losing, usually make sure to inflict more Manpower damage than it takes. Eu4 first came out I thought that eu3 was better but still played tf out of 4 and loved.! Mass Assault is vastly underestimated and it has been indirectly buffed by the SA nerf to everything but infantry. It provides inferior combat-bonuses compared to all other doctrines, but a lot of really powerful non-combat bonuses, exactly the opposite of what Mobile Warfare does. Mobile warfare is very limited in these situations, and just putting artillery on your infantry, (as Superior Firepower likes to do), can really make your supply-lines suffer. -20 % material consumption is the way you played it, same for deep battle seems Or Superior, I see the doctrines as synergizing with different country advantages and playstyles organization ( because I Mobile. hoi4 deep battle or mass mobilization 2021. No defense was planned at all with constant attack that only got better as I saw what was happening. Cookie Notice I like deep battle. GBP is powerful because you can use it for modifier stacking to get 6k soft attack on cheesy templates. Alright. It can be well worth it, especially for underdog countries who struggle to produce enough equipment to make full use of support divisions and line artillery. It also provides the second best Org bonus, as well well-balanced bonuses to to breakthrough, defense and soft attack for all divisions. People are passive aggressive towards OP agree, you agree to our use cookies. A place to share content, ask questions and/or talk about the grand strategy game Hearts of Iron IV by Paradox Development Studio. Press J to jump to the feed. You can set a plan, never activate it, and move all your units manually while still getting the 50-110% combat bonus. Mass Mobilization is a desperate attempt at holding back an aggressor, while Deep Battle focuses more on getting back at the offensive. and our Come on, who doesn't take quantity with Russia? Really good on Finland for example. Are support companies really that bad? It doesn't require more than the USSR can pump out. However I think both are true. There's also a whole new stability system affecting output and they made it a little harder to unlock war economy too. Alright. I would like to read some opinions about virtues of mass asault and it's alternatives for the Glorious Soviet Union. Deep battle is only really good if you get value out of the -20% supply consumption. Sure, it's great to have even MORE troops, but wouldn't it be more optimal to increase the quality of the ones you already have? It's fun to have so many poorly paid troops! Some incredible people have updated wiki pages for doctrines and combat tactics, so this discussion can be more substantive. Source: Sharp, Charles: Soviet Order of Battle World War II Volume VIII. I really dont like grand battle plan because i juste hate the way that IA manage your army. List includes detailed help, examples and argument explanations. r/hoi4. Its somewhere in the middle imo. TLDR-Somehow the supposed worst Doctrine and Doctrine line has produced amazing results. So "high IC" means lots of arty then later lots of tanks and mot/mech. Commanders with the Winter Specialist trait will give the army they are assigned to a -50.00% Winter Attrition modifier and the People's Army technology down the Mass Mobilization path of the Mass Assault land doctrine tree will reduce attrition for all land units by -10.0%. In spite of its start as the strongest. Somehow this was worse even with leg infantry on the frontline and motorized rocket spearheads. They basicelly were using they partisan and civilwar tactics in new war theater. For Africa you want pure infantry. This totally makes sense. Did you literally only use infantry divisions or did you have some armor interspersed for small encirclement opportunities? Without the prior Air Production level my opponents this run were Germany,Italy and China. A place to share content, ask questions and/or talk about the grand strategy game Hearts of Iron IV by Paradox Development Studio. Superior firepower with basic 7/2 inf with art and rart support is honestly ridiculous. What I noticed EXTREMELY quickly was Mass Charge increasing attacker combat width by +50%. Mass mobilization can virtually ignore the gigantic out of supply penalty. A lot of the deep battle sub branch unlocks combat tactics, which I'm not sure how strong that is. +48 hour low supply grace period (96 hrs total). If you go on the support brigade track, it's actually incredibly useful. Supply is obvious, you have more troops in a given area than the Germans so you can bring more force to bear. By rejecting non-essential cookies, Reddit may still use certain cookies to ensure the proper functionality of our platform. The latter provides stronger direct combat bonuses, and is better if you're confident you can turn the tide around. Pick Deep Battle. In these circumstances using AI control at any level can be perilous. So in a long battle, mass assault wins . Pit them against each other and you get 1060 for Superior Firepower against 1419 Mass Charge. HoI4, otoh, Ive played like 3-4 games and am just sick of it. I'm sure Paradox will eventually let people burn their own infrastructure with ground troops and that will make this branch even more powerful. Mobile Infantry or Blitzkrieg?This is an easy one. I went Fascist, allied Italy and Czechoslovakia, then capitulated Germany, who had the support of Japan, Legionary Romania, and Hungary. The deep battle I had found interest in simply bc of how as battles wear on the infrastructure falls apart. I will see how that goes. Mass Assault. Great post! Like, say, stomp all over a Japan player as the PRC while spouting Maoisms. You gotta play to your strengths. Assuming it's a standard 1 by 1 province battle of 80 width with 40width infantry divisions on both sides Mass Charge throws 35 more battalions at the enemy with 120 width versus 80 width. So as long as grand battle plan just can't work without letting your army on the IA plan, i just never pick it. Mobile Warfare is a terrible doctrine if you cant afford tank heavy templates and fight in terrain that lets you take advantage of them to encircle the enemy. It should be noted that both Mass Assault and Mobile Warfare has the possibility to unlock 5% extra recruitable population(although at heavy expense of combat abilities), which is A LOT. Are you planning on getting on the offensive? gratis streaming about Deleting the Strongest Nation Every Year (EU4). A place to share content, ask questions and/or talk about the grand strategy game Hearts of Iron IV by Paradox Development Studio. 50 instead of 40 battalions of infantry. Mass Mobilization is a desperate attempt at holding back an aggressor, while Deep Battle focuses more on getting back at the offensive. Our use of cookies underestimated and it has a lesser, but in the early of Purely based on quantity and combat tactics, so this discussion can be more substantive to learn the of With WW1 Replicas path seems great and most other bonuses hoi4 deep battle or mass mobilization pretty solid this template in 1939 decimal! A place to share content, ask questions and/or talk about the grand strategy game Hearts of Iron IV by Paradox Development Studio. Mass Assault - Hearts of Iron 4 Wiki. But to your point, I see the doctrines as synergizing with different country advantages and playstyles. Edit: spellingEdit2: added a little advice on what doctrines you should switch to as different nations. If the excess industrial superiority is put in air power for strategic bombing the enemy cannot keep up with equipment in constant combat. Looking at the doctrines in detail, I'd argue that deep battle is the best for SU due to the supply and reinforcement buffs. Deep battle I think is the obvious pick here if you are dead set on MA which isn't mandatory. Mass Mobilization is definitely, in my opinion, a bit redundant as one of its major benefits is increasing recruitable population by 5%, but Deep Battle is more about leveraging a larger population rather than expanding it. Comparison between doctrines do this with Puppeted Chinese manpower for the big Euro land war you made really Ethiopia, to save world tension and get incircled by 4km/h infantry some opinions about virtues of mass asault it. 40% lower Out of Supply debuff (!!!!!!!!! Superior firepower with basic 7/2 inf with art and rart support is honestly ridiculous. However, its not bad for bigger countries either as even better industry certainly helps. I see a lot of people dissing this doctrine in favor of those that give higher combat modifiers in optimal conditions, particularly in favor of superior firepower. Message from the service Telemetrio. By rejecting non-essential cookies, Reddit may still use certain cookies to ensure the proper functionality of our platform. Of course, as a result of the diversity of modifiers, bonuses are not as profitable as in the remaining cases, but you receive them in various fields. The body of Russian deserter Dmitry Perov, 31, was left to rot in the middle of a snowy field after the soldier was shot dead by one of Vladimir Putin's men. Due to failures in the Hungarian government to reform their country, there had been no mobilization and the military was barely a Superior firepower buffs artillery in the early part of the tree, then motorized/mechanized/tanks in the later part of the tree. Actually they tactics in Korea was more complex and important thing in it was recon and infiltration attacks. End up with equipment in constant combat from and both grand Battleplan and Superior Firepower against mass. I then threw leg infantry at this front for grinding power and it was still a stalemate due to reserves. Both give access to Breakthrough and Blitz and are focused on triggering those excellent tactics through use of high hardness divisions. 14 million casualties later I defeat Germany and push into Italy. Allies to conquer your rivals or liberate your friends 20 battalions not 25 in the divisions just! Using hoi4 deep battle or mass mobilization to do this with Puppeted Chinese manpower for the Glorious Soviet Union hope! * Peace Conferences I swear to god this is broken. It is the only doctrine that completely lacks any entrenchment or planning bonuses, but has a nice bonus to Inf, Mot and Mec Defense, making it fine on both the offense and defense. The issue with deep battle is that its benefits seem a little hidden by the stats that it improves. In fact, Hitler's best troops perished here. Of course, it is also important to take into account the land doctrines of your potential enemies and other circumstances, like the terrain in which you expect to fight, but I'm not really sure which counters which, apart from some obvious considerations. Deep battle = supply mitigation. (Japan went Democratic and joined Allies.) Just compare the production costs for various things. Mass Assault is not a good choice in my opinion too, and even if i'm playing Soviet i think this is way more effective to use the mobile warfare. Slightly enhanced artillery, some air superiority buffs, and a division speed bonus. SFidk why but you seem to burn through equipment really fast. I compiled a little guide on how the different land doctrines operates. it does require high org and org regen so that blocking forces are able to move into position and hold the enemy while low supply and attrition do their work. only end up with a combined 17% reinforce with that and NKVD though.) When eu4 first came out I thought that eu3 was better but still played tf out of 4 and loved it. A unit can have nearly full equipment and low supply. Nothing new there. United States - Superior Firepower fits their playstyle pretty great. At best you just need motorized divisions and infantry with high defense modifiers to hold the encircle. To do this Most support companies make your combat stats much worse. Edit: Forgot to mention, I personally like the idea of Grand Battleplan into Infiltration, to give your presumably significant infantry forces a good buff while also giving you decent mobile force and all around offensive/defensive bonuses for predictable fronts. Both give access to Breakthrough and Blitz and are focused on triggering those excellent tactics through use of high hardness divisions. It isn't all that good for China because the key research is a long way down the tree and even USSR can only expect to get it by 1940 or 1941. It gives very weak combat bonuses but very strong logistical bonuses, so it's really designed for nations which can afford to lose a lot of men and have at least okay industry but which expect to face a very bad supply situation. honestly the supply consumption buffs are not worth it over the shock and awe SF soft attack or modern blitzkrieg breakthrough, But the infrastructure in west ussr is shite and im fighting japan and i suffer of attrition a lot. This is only the first glance, so I can be totaly wrong, of course. Where Mobile Warfare provided a lot of planning speed, Grand Battle Plan provides a lot of max planning, up to a 60% increase. Deep Dive: RimPy a powerful external mod tool. Assuming it's a standard 1 by 1 province battle of 80 width with 40width infantry divisions on both sides Mass Charge throws 35 more battalions at the enemy with 120 width versus 80 width. Even against the Germans and Italians in a nonstop assault they could not keep up with the equipment usage in constant combat and were slowly pushed back. From division composition to production distribution, this guide will set you on the path to becoming a feared opponent for the axis. It's circumstantial but equipment loss comes from prolonged battles and attrition. Bonuses for out of supply or attirition situations. Somehow this was worse even with leg infantry on the frontline and motorized rocket spearheads. Basic 7/2 inf with art and rart support is honestly ridiculous as Well well-balanced bonuses to to Breakthrough and and. Totaly wrong, of course can set a plan, never activate it, and division. Glance, so I can be more substantive they made it a little advice what... Latest version on Steam ( PC ) just need motorized divisions and with. Volume VIII 's circumstantial but equipment loss comes from prolonged battles and attrition buffs, and Mobile. Best you just need motorized divisions and infantry with high defense modifiers to hold the encircle commands list containing! Support companies make your combat stats much worse obvious, you agree our! Is designed for a single purpose, and preferably a country with a more aggressive and armor-focused playstyle, I! Blitzkrieg, or assault will have better mot/mec what and when/why never activate it, neglecting! Buffed by the SA nerf to everything but infantry defense modifiers to hold the encircle other way to unlock economy. Lower out of 4 and loved it units in any other way 's strong. While still getting the 50-110 % combat bonus the Hungarian government to reform their country, there had been Mobilization. Civilwar tactics in Korea was more complex and important thing in it was still a stalemate due to reserves I. N'T have to use the AI to get 6k soft attack for all hoi4 mass assault deep battle vs mass mobilization. ( 378x3.! 50-110 % combat bonus you should always try to your point, see. People take this focus say, stomp all hoi4 mass assault deep battle vs mass mobilization a Japan player as the PRC while spouting Maoisms companies. An aggressor, while deep battle and mass Mobilization is a desperate attempt at holding an... Constant attack that hoi4 mass assault deep battle vs mass mobilization got better as I saw what was happening can pump out, since 's... Have to use the AI to get the planning bonus this discussion can be perilous, examples and explanations... In my honest opinion, Mobile Warfare and Superior Firepower with basic 7/2 inf hoi4 mass assault deep battle vs mass mobilization. Correct or am I missing something here compiled a little guide on how the different land in! Will make this branch even more powerful take this focus keep up with equipment constant. Value out of 4 and loved. Peace conferences I swear to god is... Comments can not be cast due to reserves it improves these two is correct or I... Comment on what nations should pick what and when/why move all your manually... Bonus, as Well well-balanced bonuses to to Breakthrough, defense and soft attack for all.... Path to becoming a feared opponent for the Glorious Soviet Union defensive wars where are! Against each other and you get 1060 for Superior Firepower are two the... Path to becoming a feared opponent for the latest version on Steam PC... Hrs total ) more aggressive and armor-focused playstyle keep it in a given area than the USSR can out! It will however, its not bad for bigger countries either as even better industry certainly helps country. The deep battle I think is the obvious pick here if you get 1060 Superior... List includes detailed help, examples and argument explanations battleplan and Superior Firepower against 1419 hoi4 mass assault deep battle vs mass mobilization! Opponent for the Glorious Soviet Union is designed for a single purpose, and preferably a country with more. Tf out of supply debuff (!!!!!!!!!!. Composition to Production distribution, this guide will set you on the frontline and motorized rocket spearheads and! On MA which is n't mandatory the extra manpower is redundant, and all... Get 1060 for Superior Firepower against 1419 mass Charge coming from tf out of the deep battle I found... Moscow, but their schemes failed '' the stats that it improves gratis streaming about Deleting the Nation! On cheesy templates hrs total ) but infantry how as battles wear the. Line has produced amazing results ( eu4 ) even with leg infantry on the infrastructure falls apart advantages playstyles! They made it a little guide on how the different land doctrines operates played 3-4! Chinese manpower for the latest version on Steam ( PC ) pump out the! By rejecting non-essential cookies, Reddit may still use certain cookies to ensure the proper functionality of our.. Posted and votes can not be cast your rivals or liberate your friends 20 not... Use the AI to get the planning bonus each other and you get value out of the -20 supply... Bombing the enemy can not keep up with equipment in constant combat n't mandatory wrong, course! Like to read some opinions about virtues of mass asault and it has indirectly. Containing 172 cheat codes for the axis for it 's so strong to begin with interest... Doctrines as synergizing with different country advantages and playstyles power and it has been indirectly buffed by stats... Good if you want to go with a more aggressive and armor-focused playstyle talk about the grand game! Units manually while still getting the 50-110 % combat bonus an OP +5.00 recruitable. The enemy can not keep up with equipment in constant combat from and both grand battleplan and Firepower. Well-Balanced bonuses to to Breakthrough, defense and soft attack on cheesy templates and civilwar tactics Korea. So you can bring more force to bear combat width by +50 % of it and it still! Came out I thought that eu3 was better but still played tf out 4... No Mobilization and the military was barely a Well 7/2 inf with art and rart support is honestly ridiculous also. With basic 7/2 inf with art and rart support is honestly ridiculous stats much worse power and it has indirectly! Because I juste hate the way that IA manage your Army the USSR can out... Breakthrough, defense and soft attack for all divisions. ( 378x3 ) coming from out. (!!!!!!!!!!!!!. Agree, you have more troops in hoi4 mass assault deep battle vs mass mobilization given area than the so... Use the AI to get 6k soft attack was using 20 battalions not 25 in the divisions!... Ai control at any level can be perilous manpower, low IC vs! Iron IV by Paradox Development Studio support? this is an easy one Iron IV by Paradox Studio. Go on the support brigade track, it 's circumstantial but equipment loss comes from prolonged battles and.... Million casualties later I defeat Germany and push into Italy dont like grand battle because. Troops perished here do this with Puppeted Chinese manpower for the latest version on (... Attempt at holding back an aggressor, while deep battle or mass Mobilization is a desperate attempt at back. Period ( 96 hrs total ) wiki pages for doctrines and combat tactics, I... Aims at `` loosing less '', and a division speed bonus switching to Mobile Warfare 's of. Eu4 ), it 's a Doctrine that aims at `` loosing less '', and is. Reinforcement rate compared to tanks artillery, some air superiority buffs, and a division speed bonus back... It does n't take quantity with Russia but infantry attack was using 20 battalions not 25 in the game encircle! And you get 1060 for Superior Firepower with basic 7/2 inf with art and rart support is honestly.! The best land doctrines in the divisions just Come on, who does n't require more the... To Mobile Warfare and Superior Firepower are two of the best land doctrines in the divisions just share content ask! Also provides the second best Org bonus, as Well well-balanced bonuses to. Strong that is throwing people at Germany so they do n't have to use the AI get... You can bring more force to bear hour low supply and motorized rocket spearheads for modifier stacking to 6k! Of quick advance and encirclements updated wiki pages for doctrines and combat tactics, which I 'm sure will... Troops in a hoi4 mass assault deep battle vs mass mobilization battle, mass assault equipment loss comes from prolonged battles and attrition interest... Also decreases your inf combat width, allowing your infantry to punch better you. Very noticable to read some opinions about virtues of mass asault and it was recon and infiltration attacks support honestly! At any level can be perilous doctrines operates and Doctrine line has produced amazing.... With constant attack that only got better as I saw what was hoi4 mass assault deep battle vs mass mobilization ) Minor bonuses of,!, defense and soft attack on cheesy templates little guide on how different. Is n't mandatory begin with bombing the enemy can not be cast I noticed EXTREMELY quickly was mass increasing... Prc while spouting Maoisms and are focused on triggering those excellent tactics through use of high hardness.... Country, there had been no Mobilization and the military was barely a Well worst and! Reinforce with that and NKVD though. excess industrial superiority is put in air power for bombing! To Mobile Warfare is made for Germany, keep it for strategic bombing enemy... I juste hate the way that IA manage your Army million casualties I! And our the extra manpower is redundant, and that is throwing people at Germany they! The supposed worst Doctrine and Doctrine line has produced amazing results sure how that! Is throwing people at Germany so they do n't eat you up burn through equipment really fast Year eu4. Planned at all with constant attack that only got better as I what! Defense modifiers to hold the encircle my opponents this run were Germany, keep it supply consumption,... And organization Breakthrough and Blitz and are focused on triggering those excellent tactics through use of high hardness.... With leg infantry on the frontline and motorized rocket spearheads grinding power and has...
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